Change the Air Interview with Mold Medic Air Quality Expert Michael Rubino

Change the Air Interview with Mold Medic Air Quality Expert Michael Rubino

Michael Rubino is a renowned air quality expert and wellness advocate, dedicated to addressing the health impacts of poor indoor air quality. He is the founder and Chairman of HomeCleanse, formerly known as All American Restoration, a company committed to tackling the global health issues arising from indoor pollutants. Additionally, Rubino established the Change the Air Foundation, a nonprofit organization focused on promoting healthier indoor environments. He has collaborated with over 100 doctors worldwide, assisting more than 1,000 families, including celebrities and athletes, in overcoming challenges related to mold exposure. Rubino is a council-certified Mold Remediation Supervisor by ACAC and IICRC and actively contributes to the Indoor Air Quality Association. He is also the author of “The Mold Medic: An Expert’s Guide on Mold Removal.”

In a recent interview on the Autoimmune Doc Podcast, hosted by Dr. Taylor, Rubino delves into the critical connection between indoor air quality and health, particularly concerning autoimmune conditions. The discussion highlights how environmental factors, such as mold and other airborne contaminants, can act as triggers for autoimmune responses. Rubino emphasizes the importance of identifying and addressing these environmental contributors to improve health outcomes. The conversation also touches upon various aspects of mold contamination, including its identification, health implications, and effective remediation strategies. Rubino’s insights provide valuable guidance for individuals seeking to create healthier living spaces by improving air quality and mitigating mold-related issues.

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Change the Air: Insights from Mold Medic Michael Rubino on Indoor Air Quality

In a recent interview, air quality expert Michael Rubino shared crucial insights on the impact of indoor air quality on health, particularly concerning mold exposure and autoimmune conditions. As the founder of HomeCleanse and the Change the Air Foundation, Rubino has dedicated his career to improving indoor environments and helping individuals overcome the health challenges posed by airborne contaminants.

The Hidden Dangers of Indoor Air Pollution

Many people overlook the quality of the air they breathe inside their homes, unaware that mold, bacteria, and other pollutants can significantly impact their well-being. Rubino emphasizes that poor indoor air quality is a growing public health concern, often exacerbated by modern building practices that reduce ventilation and trap harmful particles indoors.

Mold Exposure and Autoimmune Conditions

One of the key takeaways from Rubino’s discussion is the connection between mold exposure and autoimmune disorders. Mold spores can trigger immune system dysfunction, leading to chronic inflammation, fatigue, respiratory issues, and neurological symptoms. Individuals with existing autoimmune conditions may experience worsening symptoms when exposed to mold-contaminated environments.

Identifying and Addressing Mold in Your Home

Rubino outlines essential steps to detect and mitigate mold problems:

• Look for visible signs – Water stains, discoloration, and musty odors can indicate hidden mold growth.
• Test your air quality – Using professional mold testing services or high-quality home test kits can reveal contamination levels.
• Improve ventilation – Proper airflow reduces humidity and prevents mold growth.
• Invest in air purification – High-efficiency air purifiers with HEPA filters can help capture mold spores and other pollutants.
• Remediate properly – Simply cleaning with bleach isn’t enough; professional remediation ensures mold is thoroughly removed and prevented from returning.

The Path to Cleaner Indoor Air

Improving indoor air quality is not just about mold removal but also about adopting proactive habits to maintain a clean and healthy environment. Rubino advocates for regular HVAC maintenance, dehumidifiers in moisture-prone areas, and non-toxic cleaning products that prevent chemical pollutants from accumulating indoors.

Final Thoughts

Michael Rubino’s expertise underscores the urgent need to rethink how we maintain our indoor environments. With growing awareness about the link between air quality and health, prioritizing cleaner air at home can lead to better overall well-being. Whether you suffer from autoimmune issues or simply want to breathe easier, these insights provide a roadmap to a healthier indoor space.

For those looking to dive deeper into the subject, you can check out Michael Rubino’s book, The Mold Medic: An Expert’s Guide on Mold Removal, or visit the Change the Air Foundation to learn more about improving air quality in your home.

Transcript

0:02
all right what's up this is Dr Taylor and this is the autoimmune doc podcast and this is another one that you know
0:08
it'll be on podcast app and be on audio but I'm also here with Michael Rubino on video so we'll put this on our YouTube
0:14
as well but Michael Rubino is just I don't know how to describe you Michael but a world-renowned expert on air
0:21
quality so I'm going to introduce him in a second but Michael just say hi to everybody just so they you know can hear
0:27
you and know that you're you're here today with me hey how are you I I don't to describe myself either so you know I
0:33
don't blame you there so so you know just you know Michael and I don't know each other so I was just you know kind
0:38
of introducing myself but who I am Michael I'm a functional medicine doctor you know I treat mold so you're very
0:44
familiar with the type um and but big part of my mission is really to educate
0:49
people on the the underlying mechanism so I talk about that a lot on my podcast
0:54
and my podcast is is centered towards autoimmunity because I have Hashim and I
1:00
have autoimmunity so I see a lot of autoimmune people but the question even with autoimmune whether it's ra or Ms or
1:07
Hashimoto the question is what's what's driving it and so if you're asking those kind of questions you you quickly come
1:14
to the conclusion or that mold is at least a driver or air quality is so
1:20
educating people about that is part of my mission and also part of yours too uh
1:26
and it's not just mold but it's everything else you know with regards to Wildfire smoke or some of the things
1:31
that are just a little more trendy right now but also still super super important so my takeaway of Michael would be that
1:39
you're you know basically a professional air quality expert who's really you know one of the best in the world if not the
1:44
best in the world on just getting the the word out there you know so you've been on a lot of podcasts spoken at a lot of things but you're also just great
1:51
at the education piece meaning you know some of the the your websites the design
1:57
is great the education is as far as like you know really breaking it down for a lay person that's like what is mold is
2:04
mold a problem and then really getting into the deep science between you know is it a particulate is it an organism is
2:11
it you know the toxin byproducts and just stepwise fashion so just that's just a kudos to you as far as literally
2:17
like the design my wife's a graphic designer so like I appreciate that good design but it's also helps educate
2:23
people better so you've got amazing websites you've got a couple different
2:28
you know business entities and things like that that we'll talk about You' helped start some organizations to help
2:33
educate people you offer some testing options and some actual remediation services and so it's just really really
2:40
good and I would just say Michael too that you're clearly passionate about educating people just like I am because
2:47
I think that understanding the mechanisms just helps people find their Solutions better and another thing we
2:54
have is we have your book I was going to bring it to show on here but we we have a lending library of books that we lend
3:00
out to people so of course yours is rented out right now but I I do have your your I'll send you some more I love
3:08
that yeah so so and professionally too I just the last thing I want to say before I introduce you is I just want to say
3:13
I've got a ton of experience and again not to say that I know everything because nobody does but just again a lot
3:19
of experience of thousands of stories tons of Home tests you know with regards to our local testing guy and and
3:26
somebody actually getting specific samples of rooms but also you know play testing dust testing and all that
3:32
meaning too there's there's pros and cons to each of these things there's good better best there's budget question
3:39
there's all these things but you know there's hery there's Hertz me there's microtox sins there's Sears there's
3:45
organic acids you know binders glutathione SAA you name it and so we've got a lot of experience with all those
3:51
things I personally had a big mold issue myself so like a lot of people in this business it wasn't really the start of
3:57
how I got into this it was kind of like after I was into this but I had a big big mold issue I got rid of nasal pops
4:05
with using essential oil so I know you just had Don Dennis on your pod recently Don Dennis is our guy with you know we
4:11
carry the EC3 products all the things sinus wise um so I've had my own
4:16
experience and then I also had another issue at my office that I just think is interesting to mention before we get going but where I was I knew something
4:24
was making me sick and so and I'm a mold guy and it's so like it's mold it's mold it's mold it's mold and it was long
4:30
story short it was from alahh you know I got a from alide meter it took me like two years to Circle in on this and I wasn't like super sick I just had a
4:36
runny nose but it was I got a from alide meter and it turned out to be from alahh so I'm also intrigued to ask you about
4:43
like the what else's because I think there are a lot of what else is um and
4:48
there are a lot of opinions that are out there of like whether things are good or bad and I think that the point is it's
4:54
not always like yes you should use this or no you shouldn't use this but talking about the use and the application and
5:01
what we're aiming at and what we might expect from that but there's a lot of again things that can be used in the in the indoor airor and even sitting in
5:07
this room even right in front of me I got a an air scrubber I got a fogger I've got a ionizer and so I just dabble
5:14
with all of these things so I like to hear from the experts like yourself about well here's why you should or
5:19
shouldn't use this or here's what I like Taylor or whatever else but so tell us Michael just a little bit about yourself
5:25
and maybe your your intro you've got quite the pedigree you know with your background your wife's background and
5:30
some things like that but tell us about yourself maybe how you got into you know the air quality world yeah I mean my
5:36
dad's been a restoration contractor since I'm five years old so I've been around construction my entire life um
5:42
Hurricane Sandy happens in the Northeast uh right after I pretty much moved back home after college uh started
5:49
working with him started going into people's homes and that's when I started noticing a pattern of people really
5:55
being sick I mean um the amount of people I came across that had were were sensitive to their environment I'll
6:02
never forget This Woman's home that I walked into where she literally was so sensitive to EMF and radiation she
6:08
didn't have microwaves I had to leave my cell phone in the car um I used to write things up with an iPad back then I
6:14
couldn't bring the iPad in I had to go and get notes and and pens and you know it it really opened my eyes to something
6:22
I was completely oblivious to and one of those things was that our houses could make us sick um and all of these people
6:29
were dealing with all these different all different types of chronic conditions that they only started to
6:35
experience directly after the storm and the water damage had hit hit their homes and so it became pretty obvious to me
6:42
that there's a big Missing Link here um a lot of these homes were supposedly already remediated I mean I saw the the
6:50
proposals that people and the Scopes of work that people performed but yet they were not feeling better and so that's
6:57
really kind of how my career started and it just was this um I would say obsession with trying to solve a problem
7:03
that turned into a passion for trying to really scale a solution um and that's
7:09
you know kind of where we are today it's we know the problems there uh the work that I that I've done earlier on in my
7:15
career and studying a lot of the works of of great uhu people out there that have already you know kind of carried
7:22
the torch before me uh you know it's it's that that process and that research and really taking that information
7:30
which is essentially lab data and then how do we apply this in the real world and through that experience I've really
7:35
kind of you know been able to tailor a process that I'm focused now on scaling because the end of the day you know we
7:41
all realize the the great brevity of the situation well we need solutions for that and uh that's where people like you
7:47
and I come in you know we we need to fix the home obviously get rid of the exposure and then fix the body and
7:53
that's another thing I always want to make clear to people I I know people think I'm a magician but I'm not a
8:00
doctor and so you do this is a two-part equation for sure yeah and I think it's you know everybody has heard the old
8:06
metaphor but we draw the bucket you know we talk about hey you can't be you got to you can't be filling the bucket from
8:12
the top so that's the environment so whether that's you know mold or Foods or whatever it is and then emptying the
8:17
bucket is a separate part of the equation but that might be detox or binders or whatever else and I think
8:23
there are some ways that this can be you know scaled of some generalizations but there's also just a lot of individual
8:29
nuance and that's where it comes into you know some specifics of your basement is different than my basement or things
8:35
like that but I love that word scaling because that's exactly what I can see from a distance is like you're taking
8:41
this message and making it a little more accessible and understandable to a broader market and they still have to
8:48
take the action steps and it's still tricky even if you know all your puzzle pieces it's still really tricky but I
8:55
love that I also want to just touch on some of the things you said too because you know like the EMF sensitive person
9:00
you know to somebody that's not familiar with that or you know I have friends who are maybe in the construction industry
9:07
they would think that that sounds crazy but you see it time and then you see it again and you see it again and I think
9:13
that's again the world that we live in is you see it time and time again it's like holy crap there is definitely something going on here and you're
9:20
looking for it as you said you're looking for like well why this person is clearly sensitive why and then we're
9:27
working backwards from there instead of going in and being like yeah your home's clean for you to purchase you know as a
9:33
home inspector or something like that your goal is looking more for well why is this person sick um but I but I love
9:40
that so and I want to touch on that for a second talk about whatever you know when I when I started ringing doorbells
9:46
and walking through people's doors and and meeting them face to face and sitting down with them at their kitchen counter and they told me what their
9:52
problems were right um in that moment I was you know a guy who supposed to be their remediator potentially right
9:59
um I'm somehow their therapist right it it comes very personal and very emotional very quickly
10:06
but you you touched on something about this like this this craziness right I
10:12
had when I walked into This Woman's home and she was dealing with you know EMF sensitivity when I walked into other
10:17
people's homes and they were dealing with my multiple chemical sensitivity when I walked into people's homes and they were telling me that they were
10:22
convinced their home is making them sick there was never a thought that crossed my mind that that person was not telling
10:29
me the truth right yeah and so I think that was really like I was it it I was
10:36
open to it and I think you know I was in my 20s at the time I'm in my 30s now I'm approaching approaching my 40s here and
10:44
I I was very open to what it was that they were convinced that it was so much so that I became obsessed with trying to
10:51
figure it out yeah yeah and I think that's that's what made things so differently we have the iicr cs520 it
10:58
gets better and better every time it's it's updated and released you know we had we had some Frameworks on what to do
11:04
and how to fix a home but it was that obsession with trying to understand why
11:09
was this person struggling and you got to remember too like back then this I'm
11:15
talking like 2012 of course we had there was a terminology multiple chemical sensitivity EMF sensitivity but it
11:22
wasn't very it's it still today isn't commonly accepted right and I tell
11:27
people too that because I've heard it said that mold science mimics cigarette science in the 60s but it's moving
11:34
slower so it's we've come 2012 not that long we've come a long way but it's not
11:39
progressing that quickly but sorry to jump in there but yeah no so I think the point is like I I had to be open to it
11:46
and I'm so glad that I was open to it and I wasn't you know one of those people that just says it doesn't make
11:51
sense I've never heard of this before and just kind of blew it off and and it was through that where I started
11:56
researching and by researching and becoming obsessed with this it's started to see I mean today I can tell you I'm
12:03
sure you would agree with this but the the breath of this how much this impacts
12:08
human health across a large scale I think is inconceivable at this moment I
12:14
think the research we have is the tip of the iceberg and we we need to as a
12:19
civilization we need to demand to walk through this door and conduct more research just the other day I talked to
12:26
a toxicologist okay speaks at a university tells me they Michael I do
12:32
not think mold is significant the toxicologist and you know look I think
12:39
human health is comp complex right there's a Confluence of factors to consider but I believe this person is
12:47
fundamentally Incorrect and I think we've gone too much into this the dose makes the poison perspective I think
12:54
we're too much looking at things in a in a lab setting through a vacuum and not taking other factors to to be considered
13:01
about personally I think the quality of air we breathe is one of the most important things for human health and I
13:09
think not only is it one of the most important things for human health it's also the most overlooked item in
13:15
addressing human health I completely agree you know it's and I wanted to kind of drive that point home because I think
13:21
we you know forget forget where we are we've never been sicker than we are today think we can all agree on that if
13:27
we're looking at the right statistics and metrics the bottom line is where could we go tomorrow and I think we have a
13:32
tremendous Opportunity by continuing to hyperfocus on the air we're breathing the food we're eating the water we're
13:39
drinking and supporting our bodies through testing not guessing right and
13:45
understanding what's going on with with our bodies because we're all Unique Individuals right and some of us we're
13:51
going to need more help in some areas and others and I think the more we look at it from that perspective and stop
13:57
trying to look at everything in you know as as as across the globe um I think
14:03
we'll we'll be in better shape and so you know wanted to to get that off my chest he always very passionate about
14:08
this exactly and I completely agree and I think seriously you know we're just going to ping pong back and forth about all these things because even that
14:15
toxicologist you know first off that that boils my blood a little bit but obviously we deal with it all the time but it's like what are you going to say
14:21
to the family that I just saw who has 11 so I saw this family they have 11 kids they found they have all this mold they
14:28
didn't follow remediation advice they started ripping stuff up every single one of them flared they had to move out
14:33
some of them were like hospitalized before I met them and it's like what would you say that that's fake you know
14:39
it's like there's there's 13 of them in that house so you see it in and I tell people too you know spend a day in my
14:45
office and you don't believe that it's fake you know you you see these stories over and over and over again and I also
14:51
too see people let's say around you know you and I's age and there might be let's
14:57
say in the construction industry his and they start they're starting to have symptoms I saw this guy recently and
15:03
he's like man I used to think the people that talked about mold were crazy but now he's having all these
15:09
heart issues and all these brain issues and he's had this high armmy and dust test and this this he's starting to put
15:15
this evidence together he's also in the uh um um what is it development world
15:22
the development world so he spends a lot of time in these old buildings and he's like he's on the east coast and he's like man these old buildings they're not
15:28
as bad as is like my apartment that's new and airtight and so all these things that are that you and I hear all the
15:34
time it's like it's interesting to see somebody's learning process as they go from completely oblivious to like oh my
15:42
gosh this is making me sick and then it's like oh my gosh this is making a lot of people sick and I think that the piggybacker one of the things you say
15:48
you know diet exercise you know environment is on our radar for every everybody you know we talk about diet
15:54
and exercise and which one's more important blah blah blah but I think that air quality trumps all those and I don't there's many people that are
16:00
saying that we're all breathing air we're all breathing you know all the time more so than you know eating food
16:05
three times a day and things like that and there's toxins in the food there's toxins in the water you know we don't sell plastic bubbles but breathing clean
16:12
air is to me the most important thing um so yeah I appreciate your your mission
16:17
behind that too um tell me about you know even with that you know next question like what about change the air
16:23
as a as a foundation and the mission behind that and just kind of your involvement in that and the maybe even
16:30
some of the resources that are available too which I know is a lot but yeah I
16:35
just did a YouTube video yeah I don't know like a month ago and it was before you know I don't know if we had the
16:41
scheduled yet or not but it I I just been talking about some free resources that we share with people in my clinic and some of them are from change the air
16:47
and I give credit of course to everybody some of them are from we inspect some of them are from you know things I've done
16:52
Dennis or other things I've downloaded but we try to send these people this this educational content just so don't
16:59
go in with bleach and a in a in a spray bottle you know bleach and kills but
17:05
what about change the air as a foundation kind of the purpose and Mission behind that yeah so basically
17:11
change the air Foundation is it was a dream of mine I mean if you read my book uh the mold medic and experts got on
17:17
mold removal um when that came out in 2020 um you know there's I I mentioned
17:23
the the foundation in there and that at that point it was just early stages you know in my mind as a concept and I ended
17:33
up meeting two key people Brandon Chapo and Kendra Seymour who are the co-founders with me um for change the
17:40
air foundation and uh it was one of those like super organic interactions
17:45
right I happen to see an article about Brandon and Brandon got really sick in
17:51
Ohio in a building and you know most people we get sick and we're like
17:57
desperately trying to get better right and just you know moving on we just want to move on and you know live life again
18:04
not Brandon Brandon decided to be a change maker and go in and literally
18:10
call his his his congressman and congresswoman and drum up uh literally
18:17
change in the form of a bill um and I forget the name of the bill exactly off
18:22
the top of my head I think it was the Ohio safe Indoor Air Act don't kill me if I butchered that I apologize
18:29
um and when I saw this I was like I have to get in touch with Brandon because
18:34
this is literally something that I had invisioned that could be done literally as a an entire arm of a nonprofit and so
18:43
um Brandon and I end up connecting over Facebook Messenger of all places and um through time we we really started to
18:51
build shape around you know bringing you know coming together and forming a foundation it was at that time that
18:57
Brandon then introduced me to Kendra and Kendra has this amazing Facebook group
19:03
that she's still part of today that she moderates and is just kind of one of those she she's a a school teacher at
19:11
heart because she literally has teaching experience and um she illuminates things
19:17
uh me the way in which she's able to shed light on information and help people um overcome a lot of this
19:25
misinformation through that group was so inspiring and I said said look we have a real need for Education right because
19:32
education and awareness go hand inand and people need access to information for free um and there's only so much I
19:39
can do as a person it's a lot more we can do building an organization together right and so um we brought together
19:45
through education policy reform and obviously the third bucket is research uh which is another critical point of
19:52
this uh we're able to create a a foundation which is now called change the air Foundation a 501c3 nonprofit and
20:00
we've been in existence for over two years now uh we did our first summit um you know a couple years ago now uh we
20:07
had glenneth palter on there and and deepo Chopra and some some really cool names at Christina Perry um who I had a
20:15
personal relationship with that believe in the mission um and we were able to to bring you know some some really amazing
20:21
experts on that and talking about some some important topics um not something that we're going to be doing every
20:27
single year but it was to have this to have to bring people together that you know to talk about this topic was was so
20:35
you know important for me and um the foundation in in past two years we
20:40
passed a bill our first bill in Illinois actually and uh which my state which is not really known for being I don't know
20:48
super forward in a lot of ways but it was awesome I was kind of surprised when I got that in my email inbox I was like
20:54
oh Illinois you know did something you know worth noting um but that was awesome first Domino to fall you know
21:01
we've got 49 other states and and this is just like phase one right so it you know bills bills are notoriously
21:07
difficult to pass obviously I'm sure you can imagine and um you know it's you
21:12
can't put too much in a bill too quickly because change is scary right and so you start to get a lot of backlash and push
21:19
back so um what we're trying to do is obviously introduce um meaningful changes that can continue to exist and
21:26
be hopefully adapted over time um we also uh did a a re really a meta
21:33
analysis project sort of called the policy brief and it is a policy brief um the policy brief really put together a
21:40
lot of information that you know it it existed before it's not like we it was Earth shattering information or anything
21:46
but to have everything in one place to really understand the economic harms um and of course we have you know limited
21:53
by what we could actually say because of the limited research that exists right so a lot of the numbers are going to are
22:00
are kind of leaning more towards what our economic burden is because of asthma because that we do know is caused by
22:07
mold 22% of the cases um and so through that and we show how much economic harm
22:13
we have from ignoring this issue across the country um the economic burden is
22:19
pretty significant and so obviously we have to look at it from this perspective what do we need to invest in America's
22:25
infrastructure to prevent the type of illness that we have and you know again
22:31
being limited by the existing research that exist out there I think the number
22:36
is much much larger right um I think the economic burden that it has in this country is is crazy big uh probably
22:44
inconceivably so yeah and so you know we got to start somewhere and I think the the the entire idea of you know funding
22:52
that initiative was to be able to show politicians in every state look this is
22:57
the cost the cost of ignoring this and sweeping under the rug and making horrible recommendations like telling
23:04
people to use bleach or paint over it this is what you get yeah and so you know I think it's when we're talking
23:10
about politics we need measurable outcomes right and so these this was something that was um really really
23:15
important uh for us to do as as an organization and to put out there and I think you know it's it's it's out there
23:22
right so not just our organization but any organization can use it um and and we encourage that because we want this
23:28
information out there and we want to make a difference through that and so and that's something that I can see just
23:33
as a third party you know from a distance is like it's free it's there's no hook to it it's not and even you know
23:41
again there's business entities involved and I treat mold people and you help people with their mold situations but
23:47
it's just it's educational content that that brings shines more light I guess on
23:52
the problem I mentioned earlier that I've heard that mold science mimics cigarette science and it's moving slower
23:57
but you think about it to to somebody like you and I we know it's a problem we know the burden is you know uh
24:05
incalculable but it's like it's hard to cause or it's hard to show causation
24:12
it's even hard to show correlation because there's all kinds of different mold situations there's all types of air
24:18
quality situations there's all kinds of Health you know things that can come from that downst stream and it's really
24:23
really hard to link the two and I think that what you guys are doing is instead of being you know one person just
24:29
shouting it from the rooftops which can sometimes draw a crowd you're thinking like well how can we actually make
24:35
change and that starts at the grassroot level of you know putting that putting these plans together like you're saying
24:41
and I think that now just seeing you know even some of the fruits of your labor meaning like some policy reform
24:47
and policy change it's really cool but again for me and not knowing anything about this you know from a political
24:53
side of things and so like that I've Just Seen change the air in the last couple years just start making waves you
24:59
know even just in the the lay person community and in the educational community and certainly in the treatment Community um but you can start to see
25:07
that with what's happening you know Wise too and that's with limited
25:12
funding I mean I just want to say that so you know the more people that support
25:17
the foundation right the more energy that we all decide to give to the foundation the more the foundation can
25:24
do and it's it's not rocket science right we can only do so so much with the money that we're we're we're given and I
25:31
I personally give a a significant portion of money and help bring a lot of resources into the foundation but I'm
25:38
just one man you know and I always want to make that clear it's like we need all the help we can get you know um set a
25:45
meeting with Brandon set a meeting with Kendra I think you'll get to really see the breath of the organization by doing
25:50
so and you know it if if what the organization stands for aligns with what
25:56
you want to contribute to and how you want to see the world change you know by all means contribute and I think that's
26:02
why we do contribute as human beings to nonprofits because we we we we enjoy their mission we we root for them and we
26:09
want them to succeed and so you know we're kind of in the same the same way I mean you know the there are business
26:15
units that I have as a person right and so when I look at my overall Vision the reason that I wanted to create this
26:22
Foundation I'll speak for me I don't want to speak for Kendra and Brandon but I realized that I personally was never
26:27
going to be able to solve this problem one house at a time right home plans exist as a solution to a problem and
26:34
that's a a company that I'm scaling to be able to actually scientifically data
26:40
driven solve problems in people's homes so that they have the best chance of outcomes right that's what that company
26:46
exists to scale the dust test that I created again that company exists to scale help people understand and screen
26:52
their homes up front so that they can as a diagnostic tool can make better decisions and then so they can also
26:58
track their progress over time right because I don't care what Journey you're on it's a journey and creating a healthy
27:05
environment is a journey too I be I just renovated my entire house when I bought
27:11
this house and uh about a year and a half in I had a freaking leak right
27:17
luckily I caught it quickly I was able to repair it it cost me a few thousand dollars it wasn't fun wasn't excited
27:23
about it I had to move everything out of my kids playroom is a disaster right yeah but at the end day like no house
27:30
doesn't matter what you do is going to be bulletproof and you're G to have issues and so like being able to kind of
27:36
have tools to monitor those issues I think is really important and I think when we take those those businesses and
27:43
those tools that I put it's part of the overall vision of having solutions for
27:48
people that could scale that people can depend on right at the same time like
27:55
change the air Foundation is completely separate this is part of the vision that for me it needs to exist I'm chairman of
28:03
the board today right at some point my term's going to be up there's going to be other chairman of the boards and that
28:09
I'm hoping that this organization outlives me right and continues to solve this problem across the the world when
28:15
you guys are thinking long term like that too and and you have to and I think long term about about every organization
28:22
I'm part of because at the end of the day it's like this idea of trying to help people through nonprofits and
28:29
for-profits and creating vehicles for people that could are Dependable right I think that's that's really important I
28:35
mean if you have a remediation company that isn't dependable and that they're not creating the outcome you're looking
28:41
for guess what you're you go through this process you're still exposed and you're still sick well and that is part
28:48
of the problem in our in your side of the industry too is that one person says this place looks clean one person says
28:54
it's not one person does a dust sample one person does an air sample one person does doesn't do any testing and there's
28:59
just even if everybody has the same you know certifications to be an indoor
29:04
environmental professional there's still a lot of opinions and things like that too so having some uniformity I think is
29:11
good too of of totally testing and metrics and all those things and that's you know I mentioned the word scalable
29:17
early on and and the reason I mentioned that word it's it's it's going to come full circle right now I mean if you do
29:24
not scale anything that you do whether it's a nonprofit a for profit if you're not scaling a process anything that you
29:31
need in this world is not going to provide the solution that you want to long term because as things change
29:39
scales break right and you have to be willing to do the work to make sure that
29:45
as you're growing you're adjusting the scale so that at the end of the day the customer experience doesn't change right
29:52
um and look I'm not not going to sit here and say that I'm perfect I'm not going to sit here and say everything that I built is perfect right it's it's
29:58
an evolution but the the point was one of the problems that I saw that I
30:04
realized I wanted to change was walking into people's homes that have been remediated or remediated twice or even
30:10
three times and still couldn't couldn't lift their head off the pillow yeah that's a problem for me it's almost in
30:16
my practice I don't want to say it's the majority because that I have to think about that you know numbers wise but
30:23
it's it's at least close enough that I have to think about it that it's like a lot of people that come in that still issues and I'm like man I'm kind of
30:29
suspicious of mold based on your symptom clusters and things like that that you're expressing they're like well and I might ask him you know just hey what
30:35
about mold do you have any experience with that oh yeah we had mold four years ago but it was remediated and so I think there's a certain amount of education
30:42
and and kind of mental block that we have to get through too to say hey maybe that wasn't done correctly and another
30:47
thing that I would say Michael with all of your your approaches especially but it's a again it's a journey it's a
30:53
learning process of how do you take somebody from like I don't know anything about mold to actually wanting to do a
31:00
dust test or get home cleanse or things like that they've got to at least first
31:05
admit that it could be a problem you know in a newer or more renovated home a lot of people think like well my home is
31:10
new and so a lot of those are just the the most common misconceptions you know I live in a town here in Illinois that
31:17
was hit by a tornado and so there I see more mold cases in my town here that
31:24
were homes that have been rebuilt in the last 10 years than I see the old side of town but those are not the people that
31:30
are suspecting it those are the people that are thinking my home is new I couldn't possibly have mold why am I so
31:36
sick but again you just got to break through some of those barriers of Education to get somebody to to pick up
31:41
the next breadcrumb as they're following that trail of breadcrumbs that eventually leads to testing remediation
31:47
long-term Solutions but there's a lot of breadcrumbs they have to follow to to even get to that point uh and I think
31:53
that again you're taking all of those things into account as far as if somebody's never even heard the MW and
31:59
they stumble upon our website where do they begin and again I think you've made that really navigatable but it's also
32:06
something that you're always tweaking and changing and stuff too what are some of the resources and again if you know
32:11
top of your head I'm sure you do but just there's a lot of them on change the air website but what are some of the
32:17
resources like even some of the downloadable PDFs or some of the things that people can just find on there with
32:24
regards to education or also action steps as well um or some of maybe your
32:30
favorites too yeah I mean it changes week to week right kend kend Kendra is in charge of that department I'll tell
32:36
she's killing it all those resour and those handouts those PDFs they're money they're so good so so what I always
32:43
recommend people do when they're looking to figure out what to do there's a start here section you click Start here and
32:50
you're GNA learn how to find an IEP how to find a remediator right you're going to learn you're going to learn really
32:55
all the different pieces of the puzzle you have the sources of mold the particles that it creates toxins it can
33:01
create right the mvocs it could create um I think mold is a symptom typically
33:06
of a sick building obviously mold is for me I think it's one of the most dangerous components of a sick building
33:13
because the the different aspects of mold in general you have the spores and the fragments that can become a problem
33:19
because of their size um they could bypass self defense mechanisms enter the bloodstream obviously different species
33:26
are going to create different spores right but um when you look at it from that perspective you'll start to see
33:32
that spores themselves could be a problem right um then you have research that
33:38
mvc's create its own set of problems and mvc's are voc's produced by by mold and
33:45
that's microbial voc's it's essentially the byproduct mold creates as it's living and thriving in your house you
33:51
might notice that moc's create kind of kind of mimic that musty odor that we
33:57
associated with like damp basements and stuff and that's really what mvcc's are vocc is a volatile organic compound it's
34:05
actually what our old factory senses register as a smell so just for people to have that understanding so when you
34:12
have mvc's you will have that moldy smell that you probably grew up knowing
34:18
um which means that it is impacting your body as it's entering your body because you wouldn't smell it if those particles
34:23
were not actually entering your body right or sewage but is a different smell but it's the same different smell but yeah mechanism MV yeah right mv's as
34:31
well right and so but more probably more from bacteria than from the mold aspect then you have the toxins right and
34:38
different species can produce different toxins and different toxins as we study them produce different health effects
34:44
right and so it becomes a very convoluted subject here the nice thing about it is mold for me why I look at it
34:51
as a common denominator is because it's one of the easiest things to detect with current technology mhm and you need
34:59
water right like so if we find mold we know that there's water coming in so if we find mold we know there's probably
35:05
bacteria but the remediation strategy doesn't necessarily change exactly one
35:11
of the biggest missing missing links to this whole puzzle is the HVAC system I can't tell you how many people remediate
35:18
their houses how many experts IEPs remediators the best in the country it
35:23
doesn't matter they're not talking about the HVAC system and I'm watching people
35:29
buy dust test dust test their house after they still have high asparagus
35:34
high penicilium they've clean their house three or four times first question asked did you clean your HVAC system no
35:40
nobody told me to do that well if you've had mold throughout your house and
35:45
that's creating particles and it's creating toxins and those get drawn into the HVAC system you've got a merate
35:51
filter even if you have a Merv 13 filter you're only filtering out 75% of the time so 25% of the time it's by passing
35:57
the filter getting into the system the evaporative coil condensates it's literally what it does all summer long
36:03
as the AC's blasting that's where the mold's growing and nobody's telling people this and even if they are a coil
36:10
is pretty complex to clean you have to pump down the system take it out clean the coil you would know if somebody
36:17
cleaned your coil properly because your AC would would be down you know for for extended periods of time while they do
36:22
that maybe the whole day right and so um most companies are just coming in and spraying one side of the coil guess what
36:28
there's two sides of the coil and it's all the way in the back that you can't even like physically stick your hand up and clean and so you look at from all
36:35
this perspective and it's just like we've just we're not doing the complete process and that's why you're still
36:42
seeing people not feeling well that's why you still see you know data showing up on the dust test that shouldn't be
36:47
you despite all these people's efforts and so you one one of my opinions of like proper testing and Remediation is
36:55
it's it's not I it's it's not rocket science it's just we have to take all you have to go 12 lers deep and like how
37:01
are you not cleaning the lungs of the home and or at least looking into it but to your point you're just not getting it
37:07
all if you're you're Miss they're cleaning the duck work everybody everybody goes right for the duck work
37:13
they let's clean the duck work let's clean the duck work and like you know
37:18
I'm sure there's some benefit to cleaning the duck work for sure particles blah blah blah yeah yeah but
37:24
but like that's not where it's growing you know unless you have ation problems like in the duck work and you have mold
37:30
growing in the duck work which by the way at that point cleaning is not going to cut it right you need yeah you know
37:36
unless you have that or you have mold growing around vents you know it's it's it's growing in the evaporative coil and
37:42
like it's just always neglected yeah there's a lovely test EPA 36 test I love
37:49
that test for the HVAC system never see people use it you know almost sparingly very few companies use
37:56
it um you know so there's so many things that we could do to get a good Baseline of what's going on but you know look I
38:03
get uh scrutinized all the time by other Professionals for you know being data driven which I think is crazy to me but
38:13
here we are and the reason being is because everybody thinks that well we need to you know we we should be able to
38:20
see these things more you know we we should use tools like thermal imaging and do a proper inspection and you know
38:26
you take things out of cont of course of course you need to do a proper inspection you need to know what to test you have to inspect to know what
38:33
to test right so when I speak about these things you know for me that's a given obviously because we're not just
38:39
looking to test every single wall cavity in in the home it to be crazy but yeah I think having the data to understand what
38:46
molds are we dealing with and how might that correlate to the unique individual especially where might we find them if
38:52
it's stacky versus aspergillis you might go looking in a different place if it's coming from a dust test and you're just
38:58
again on that trail of breadcrumbs it's not always leading you right to the end it's leading you to the next clue of
39:03
where should I look yeah and you know in my process I like to have data because
39:10
the number one people number one question people ask me is I don't have unlimited money there's no money tree in
39:15
the backyard how am I going to be able to take the limited resources I have and make sure that those resources are
39:21
invested properly exactly you can't do that without data right you know anybody
39:27
can come into your house and make hypothesis and that's what I see a lot of experts do they come in they make
39:33
hypothesis well this one time this is what happened and okay but there are so
39:38
many variables and so if you're not correct about the exact set of variables
39:44
that would lead to a specific outcome and you don't have the data to support that odds are you're taking a swing in a
39:51
miss people are going to spend money going in a direction and they're not actually going to feel any different right and I think that's what so many
39:58
different times and so you know again it's how do we make this scalable well we need a process and if we don't have a
40:04
datadriven process then how the heck are we GNA make unique decisions because
40:09
your house is different than my house is different than my friend's house is different than your friend's house and
40:16
my mold is different than your mold is different than his mold right and so how the heck do we scale something like this
40:24
that can help people uniquely and individ ually and I'll tell you there's two ways to do it one technology thank
40:31
God technolog is finally increasing I think we're going to have individualized medicine be able to scale in short order
40:38
the second way is process and it has to be a process and you have to be able to
40:46
actually match data sets together within each step of the process that's how I do
40:51
it I have charts mold school I say okay you have this mold this produces this toxin I see on your Labs you have this
40:57
tox and elevated this makes sense right I get the whole argument no test is perfect right but when I start to see
41:03
things correlate you start yeah you could see it clear as day a lot of times not every time but yeah we don't we
41:09
don't need to argue about this we see some correlation here I strongly suggest we we get these numbers lower right and
41:15
that's the name of the game it's like I think um the other issue that I have with a lot of people is you know this
41:23
does create a lot of fear right um when you start to see a wrecking ball or a second mortgage you
41:31
know that and and it's and it's how do we how do we how do we take the emotion out of it um and I think I'm pretty good
41:38
at that you know trying to take the helping people take the emotion out of it and just stick to let's make data
41:43
driven decisions let's take step-by-step actions um and that's that's that's really difficult because there are some
41:49
people that are like they do a test they see mold the next day they have somebody coming in with hammer swinging things
41:55
down and that's where people start to make mistakes exactly like you should have done the order a little differently
42:01
there you know well and I would say the same thing Michael about functional medicine you know it's very customized
42:07
it's very unique there's certain algorithm that almost everybody needs to follow but every case is a little bit
42:13
different but I think that it's it really starts with the education if you
42:18
understand that finding mold doesn't mean you have to knock your house down it just means you have to clean it up
42:24
and you've got to do some removal and some air particle cleaning or whatever it is if you understand that there are
42:30
action steps that can be taken then it's not overwhelming there's a problem and there's a solution it's like no big deal
42:35
you know I got a flat tire it kind of sucks but I can get it filled and pumped and get back on the road it's not the
42:41
end of the world so I think that that comes back to the education and but the same thing happens in functional
42:46
medicine you know people read you know some article about a parasite and they just go out and buy some parasite
42:52
cleanse and they spend $250 they don't get better and I'm not hating on parasite cleanses by any means but they
42:57
just start shooting in the dark because they know there's a bad guy out there somewhere and they're not they don't really know what they're aiming at so I
43:04
think that even taking you know I don't know fill in the blank with whatever time but taking four or five hours
43:10
taking four or five days and just diving into some of the resources on change the air listening to some of the you know
43:17
people out there they all kind of start saying the same thing and then this problem doesn't look so unsolvable you
43:22
still got to take the action steps and you you can you know that's what you guys are trying to scale too but the
43:27
education is just such a crucial component um to even taking the right action steps right yeah you're exactly
43:35
right you know it's like anything else right you want to lose 20 pounds there's
43:41
no switch and all of a sudden you're 20 pounds a letter right you got to put in the work and it's daily it's consistency
43:46
and it's you got to make the hard decisions every day three times five
43:51
times a day you're going to fall off the wagon and you got to give yourself a little Grace but you got to get back on
43:57
and yeah all those things I'm on the he Journey right now yeah I went to uh Europe over the holidays to visit some
44:03
family and I I fell off the wagon I was I was drinking hot wine in the middle of
44:08
the streets I I never drink I a matter of fact 24 days I haven't had a had a
44:13
lick of alcohol but before that you know I was I was on vacation I'm in vacation mode right so I was I was eating stuff I
44:20
never eat you know and I was like well I'm in Europe right so there's no way I can get fat while I'm in Europe you know
44:26
it's the the food's so clean over here I gained 10 pound guys um and you know
44:31
what it's like you could be you could be in the cleanest place in the world but if you're having too much sugar and too
44:38
many carbs right I'm gonna for me where like sugar and carbs literally are the
44:43
death of me that's my kryptonite like yeah it's not not in a good position right the alcohol that I that I drank
44:49
here and there turned right into sugar right not great for me so you know it's a kind of it's about like knowing who
44:55
you are knowing what your limitations are and like when you do decide I'm going to fall off the wagon be freaking
45:01
intentional about it and then just as intentional as you were about falling off get the intention right to fall back
45:07
in I'm I'm down eight pounds since I've been back in the last 24 days R A you
45:13
know averaging about two to three pounds a week um which is you know pretty decently healthy way to lose weight not
45:20
trying to go too crazy and I'm where where I'm at now I feel great I'm am I a
45:25
little bummed that like I fell off the wagon kind of because I could have been like that much better but at the same
45:31
time I'm a human being and I want to live life you know that's exactly what I was going to say because that's what I encourage people to do too you know
45:37
sometimes joked at my office as like a Catholic confessional it's like forgive me doctor I've sinned I ate gluten I
45:43
drank alcohol I didn't take my supplements whatever but you got to test those Waters and I think the same thing is true with mold and I think that's
45:50
another just interesting conversation is nobody's suggesting that the world's ever going to be mold free or that your
45:56
home is going to be mold free but if there's a problem you got to clean it up and then but I'm not saying you can't
46:02
ever go stay in a hotel again or you know we don't want somebody to get so fearful that they stop living their life
46:10
also but if you touch that hot stove and you get a little burned then you got to think about okay why did that happen
46:17
what can I change next time what can I do better what what caus this you know and if it's Europe and drinking then
46:23
it's like okay was that worth it or not but those are the things that everybody's got away even with regards
46:28
to their air quality too yeah what are some things what are some things Michael
46:33
because I want to ask you about you're just kind of your opinion on some things and feel free to just ramble with whatever but you know again I think that
46:40
mold I I like what you said let me tell you something about that too about that mold is a symptom of a sick house you
46:45
know I just had this person she's got some mold suspicions she had some really high levels on her labs and her
46:51
husband's a home builder so but they had all this mold on their window sill and I said well that's got to be removed and
46:58
he said I can't remove it it'll grow back again the next day and I said well that's the problem like why is it
47:03
growing back again the next day but so they're starting starting to open their eyes but it's just a symptom of a sick
47:09
building and I think that for for you and I the our thing is like well we just want to breathe clean air whether it's
47:15
dust or smoke or voc's or spores or micos we just want to breathe clean air so what are some of your opinions on the
47:22
like what else meaning besides mold or like mold spores that might show up on
47:27
on testing so I'm talking about you've already touched on some of them but from alahh the voc's you know LPS and things
47:36
that might be more bacterial and sewage or Actos or you know Wildfire smoke again just you know popular now and in
47:42
the last you know couple decades but especially right now in LA and stuff like that but what about what else and I
47:48
know that's a big question but start wherever and talk about whatever yeah I mean there's a lot of what else
47:54
obviously right it's like but do you agree with that of like breathing clean air and if even with like you know
47:59
purification and stuff like that it's like hey there's all kinds of things that could be coming in but if you're purifying now not to say that a purifier
48:06
is going to be a miracle but if you're purifying you take out a lot of the potential sources now obviously you
48:11
still got to clean those things up but any of those that you think are overlooked or any of those that you
48:16
think are kind of moving up the radar with the voc's or LPS or actino some of them become trendy topics for a period
48:23
of time but it's all to me just like breathe clean air and that's really what it is the message is breathe clean air
48:29
right so mold is a symptom of a sick house right mold mold can be pretty toxic depending on what type of mold and
48:34
you know we already mentioned there's three different parts to the to the mold organism itself that we want to be conserved of that have their own ways of
48:41
impacting the health of the human body you have bacteria that also grows with the same water damage conditions right
48:48
and so if we have too too high humidity too much water coming into our house we're going to have mold we're going to
48:53
have bacteria as bacteria dies off it can produce endo toxins as it's alive it could produce exotoxins right both of
49:01
those are not really that great to be breathing in you're going to have virus particles that you're going to spread in
49:07
your own home that your family is going to spread in in your own home um to just just to be mindful of not trying to make
49:13
everybody fearful of breathing right yeah we've got 400 trillion viruses in our body it is a scare word but it
49:20
shouldn't be you know they're everywhere but also I was just going to say and I didn't mean to jump in but like just dust you know just dead skin and just
49:26
dust is sometimes particulate and an allergen and irritant and all those things but anyway yeah you're going to
49:33
have dead dead hair and skin cells right some of the main particles that make up our dust we're going to have dust mites
49:38
unfortunately we're going to have animal proteins if we have animals or pet dander if we have pets right uh we are
49:45
going to have things like voc's you know things that we bring into our house can have things like for Malahide in it
49:51
right that also can can uh be a problem for inhaling um all these different
49:57
things we have microplastics right that that enter our environment even pasas
50:03
we're seeing a lot of these pasas um forever chemical is actually off gasing into the air and being actually you're
50:10
breathing it in and so you know you want to be mindful of all these things and what does that really look like well it
50:15
just looks like being making smart decisions on what you bring into the house versus you know uh trying to kind
50:23
of draw a line I I don't want people to go crazy you know at the same time I just want
50:29
people to be mindful that these contaminants exist and that when you are making purchases of items you know you
50:36
know what to look for right so I like I look I look for vocc free or low VOC
50:42
Alternatives when I'm buying stuff you know I'm looking for firm Malahide free products where I can um you know I
50:49
obviously want to get humidity and moisture under control in my home so I don't have mold or have bacteria
50:55
overgrowth um I think the word overgrowth is a good word by the way because as you mentioned earlier we
51:01
can't really have mold free homes or bacteria free homes or virus free homes
51:06
it's impossible uh we can't build bubbles around ourselves we can't build bubbles around our homes that's not the
51:13
objective the objective is to have an environment that is under control I want to be able to go outside and come in and
51:20
take my shoes off at the front door knowing I'm not tracking stuff in and not have to worry if brought a mold
51:27
Spore in my clothes in on my clothes or not because I probably did every day yeah but like how am I how am I supposed
51:33
to live with that type of fear exactly so what do I have well I have good cleaning regimens right I clean with the
51:39
right stuff I don't have chemicals I chemicals is another thing chemical off gasing inside of our own homes with the
51:45
cleaning products it's a big deal I have uh MV 16 filters on my HVAC units I have
51:51
two HVAC units one in my attic one one in my downstairs I've got mve 16 filters on both those are capturing 95% of
51:59
everything that I would want it to capture which is keeping my hvx clean longer do you personally start to jump
52:05
in but do you do use anything like the activated charcoal or the potassium permanganate in your HVAC or just the MV
52:11
I just have the murv just just pulling out the particles cool um I do have air purifiers that have activated charcoal
52:17
and I have air air purifiers that are just particulate base and so I have the HVAC systems which if you put a MV 16
52:23
filter it essentially turns your HVAC into an air purifier right I've got that I've got some air purifiers around I've
52:29
got you know some for vocc some for the particulate you know if I I I live in
52:35
Florida so I'm I don't have a lot of fire potential here or smoke potential here but you know I have if if I did if
52:42
I lived in California for example I'd probably have a lot of voc uh based filter so I'd have those charcoal
52:48
filters to pick up some of the voc's that you're going to unfortunately have with smoke um but I'd also have
52:55
particulate filters because that Ash and that Char and a lot of those chemicals that are going to come in that that
53:02
they're coming from burnt buildings and um you know all these building materials
53:07
that are going to have unfortunately chemicals involved yeah we want to be able to pick up those particulate matters so that you're not breathing
53:12
that in and so you know it's different strategies for different things you know unfortunately we are going to have times
53:18
where our air quality outside's not great where we're going to want to keep windows closed and have you know recirculation of air and we're going to
53:24
want air purifiers probably running full glass and then there are days where the air quality is great outside we're going
53:30
to want to open Windows and get fresh air in and dilute the amount of particles we're breathing in you know you mentioned something earlier about
53:37
the modern home you know the reason that the modern home is making such a difference today than it was 50 years
53:42
ago our homes are built totally tighter than they were 50 years ago right and everybody I ever speak to that's a builder HVAC anybody they're like yeah
53:49
the homes are tight they don't breathe and it seems like people know that that
53:54
it's a problem but there's still some you know some work to be done with hence
54:00
the organization the foundation of connecting the dots but anyway you're saying yeah so if they don't breathe
54:05
right then the amount of particles you're breathing inside these tight homes is going to be exponential versus
54:11
a home that that did breathe also if a home doesn't breathe and we build with
54:16
paper like we do you're the mold potential is I mean A Thousand Times
54:23
Higher I don't know I'm just throwing a number out there but it's po higher than when we had balloon framed homes that
54:29
had an air gap between the exterior and interior wall and then even if if water came in we had a cous product called
54:35
plaster on the other side of that so when water did come in which it did just
54:41
like any other house that you still have that same risk factor but there was a lot more air movement that allowed it to
54:46
dry right and so you don't have air movement in a wall cavity as much you've got it's packed with insulation it's
54:53
covered in drywall that insulation gets wet holds that moisture like a sponge there's not enough air movement for it
54:59
to dry quickly I mean I've seen walls that had leaked months ago and they're still wet as you open them up because of
55:06
the insulation just kind of soing it there we consider that trap moisture and when you have trap moisture the mold
55:13
growth potential just goes through the roof and so houses are um notoriously
55:19
more more at risk for mold growth today than they ever were and I bet we could
55:25
do a whole episode on the scary crap that you've seen I it's disgusting yeah seen some but sorry keep going yeah you
55:32
take that and you compound it with the fact of how how limited um the air exchange is in our houses that
55:39
heightened amount of particulate matter that we're breathing in that heightened amount of toxins and our household
55:45
chemicals and all the things we talked about that you want to be mindful of
55:50
every time you breathe 20,000 times per day the amount of particles that are entering your body in in a modern home
55:56
versus an older home it's exponentially higher um and I think that's really playing a big factor in all of this for
56:03
sure um and so it's something that you know when we push for Energy Efficiency which obviously there's value in energy
56:09
efficiency problem is that when we push for it have to also be mindful of the occupants living inside I think if we do
56:16
that we'll probably be in a better position yeah it's weird because I've got friends that are in the HVAC
56:21
industry or contractors or things like that and they're like oh when we go to sem ARS they talk about this as it's a
56:29
problem and that there's a w going to be a wave of sick people from our building practices and they like wow that's crazy
56:35
that it's talked about in those circles but it's again the dots maybe aren't necessarily connecting to to change
56:42
being made quite yet but we kind of all not all but a lot of people see this problem with these tight spaces with a
56:48
lot of drywall and paper and uh drop ceilings and things that are just kind of good mold food but it's a kind of a
56:55
perfect storm what about another question too Michael just again your opinions but I think that some of the
57:01
things that we're talking about right now I don't say everybody agrees on but almost everybody agrees on like particle
57:07
filtration you know so whether that's purifiers or MBS or you know voc's there's all kinds of different nuances
57:13
to that PM 2.5 and different particle sizes and all that stuff but what about some of the other just I don't know
57:19
Fringe things that like ozone some people say it's horrible some people say
57:25
it's great I had great success with it with my formalde issue I just didn't really know why but every time I ran an
57:30
ozone I felt a lot better I never ran it in when I was there I'd run it over the weekend and let it dissipate and stuff
57:35
but a lot of people tell me that was completely wrong but it helped me or ionizers you know you hear controversial
57:42
things about ionizers or UV lights and other thing that just I've heard and again correct me if I'm wrong but like a
57:48
UV light on the HVAC isn't as effective because the air is not stagnant it's moving but I've heard that an HV light
57:55
on the coil is effective because it's not moving and you're it actually is really good at controlling mold with
58:01
that UV light and that that application so what are your thoughts on some of those things um again Fringe things or
58:08
whatever we want to say but like or Foggers is another one that some people swear by and some people don't and I
58:15
think that with everything too my final opinion is that there's there's good and there's bad in a lot of these different
58:21
things so it kind of depends on the Target that you're aiming at and how you're measuring progress or if it's working working or not but what's your
58:27
opinion on some of those things that I just threw out there yeah I mean I think everything is going to have pros and
58:33
cons you know there unfortunately there's just no magic bullet to this thing yeah yeah you know obviously
58:39
particle filtration is important because the more particles that you're filtering um the less particles your lungs are
58:45
filtering right and so I think that's an no-brainer everybody could benefit from having air purification devices inside
58:51
their home everyone could benefit from improving the filtration of their HVAC
58:57
system it's a no-brainer this shouldn't even be a debate about that um there are
59:02
certain things like ozone ozone is is known to be an amazing odor Destroyer
59:07
right um the problem with ozone is I don't think we fully understand its
59:14
effect on particulate matter okay and I've also heard that it kind of pisses mold off and then mold will release
59:20
microx as a defense meis I think that's a theory of course but I mean it's hard to hard to prove these theor but
59:26
potentially that you know that that's that's certainly a valid risk factor uh to to be considered about you know we're
59:34
we're dealing with an evolving science so as more money comes in and more research is done we might learn new
59:39
things right and that's always exciting to how how can we make things easier and better but I would say you know one of
59:45
the big drawbacks for me on ozone is I think it breaks particles into smaller
59:51
particles um and I think that that can pose a real challenge for some people now not all people but I think for some
59:57
people um specifically because the smaller the particle the more it bypasses your self-defense mechanisms
1:00:03
and enters your bloodstream so inhalation turns into ingestion pretty quickly now what does this altered
1:00:09
particle do to the human body we just don't know I mean it's just that simple we don't know and so if it works for you
1:00:17
and you feel good fine you know but I have too many concerns to be recommending that as a fulls scale
1:00:24
solution exactly and I have scaled back and you know this was a couple years ago but it was kind of like
1:00:30
when I ran in those on I felt better so I would do it every few weeks but I've learned more and heard more opinions
1:00:36
like that and I appreciate you taking not a necessarily good or bad but here's the pros here's the cons we just don't
1:00:43
know but I'm more on the con side of things but I appreciate that opinion but I've scaled back on doing that what
1:00:50
about some of those other what about ions that's another one that's you know my friend Pon um who's a pediatri and
1:00:56
big mold guy but he's he's just seen a lot of success with ions meaning like
1:01:01
symptomatic success in the families that he's treating and then you know Don Dennis talks about it mean ions I think
1:01:06
I said ozone but the ions but you also hear some naysayers and like oh you
1:01:11
shouldn't do ions or things like that so I'm just asking kind of open-minded but
1:01:16
I have one but yeah yeah I mean ions get put out there's Char there basically
1:01:21
they're usually negative ions charging to a particle um which changes the charge of the particle this and can
1:01:29
neutralize it in in theory I think yep and you know kind of forces it to the floor uh so it's not in your breathing
1:01:36
zone so it's kind of like you know the the candles the mold candles like it you know gets it out of the air temporarily
1:01:43
um but it's still got to be filtered or hepo vacuumed or it's still got to be
1:01:48
removed is that right yeah I mean yeah I mean that's that's the thing I mean all
1:01:55
of these things the major drawback that we have is we're not removing the particles like a particle cannot be
1:02:01
created nor destroyed that seems to be like a fundamental principle that's a natural law that people I've heard that
1:02:08
somewhere before yeah right I mean so we're talking about anything you do
1:02:13
you're changing the particle maybe you're making it smaller maybe you're splitting it into fragments at the end of the day the best strategy for me um
1:02:22
that I can that you you will not get my stamp of approval for not talking about how do we remove this particle and
1:02:28
filtration is great because you're trapping in a filter you're removing the filter there you go you remove the
1:02:33
particle um ionization listen if you need relief and it's working for you please by all means if if you know if
1:02:40
doctors are seeing success with people getting the relief they need to figure out their next move by all means I just
1:02:47
I try to not let people fall into the Trap of thinking I don't have to fix my
1:02:52
house exactly that has that's a sick house yeah yeah I just got to plug in an ionizer yeah or burn a mold candle or
1:02:59
something like that like if it helps great but you got to clean it up know if you've got a gaping wound and you need
1:03:06
surgery a Band-Aid is only going to help for so long right and so I think it's really important that people don't get
1:03:12
stuck into the Trap because you know when I look at like some of these products marketing it makes me want to
1:03:17
throw up because it's such because it's a Hot Topic lies
1:03:23
like I I don't want to mention any names but people pray on what's a Hot Topic
1:03:28
and they pray on people that are desperate for an answer and and so I think there's a lot of over marketing
1:03:34
Even in our side of you know there's two sides of the mold world people that don't know it exists or don't believe it exists and people that know and even in
1:03:41
the world of people that know there's a lot of marketing and sales and things like that so um I mean PCO is like the
1:03:50
new wave of Technology photocatalytic oxidizers okay that basically creates
1:03:55
ions um but essentially PCO is this new thing that that everybody's selling now
1:04:02
and they're they're making bold claims like eliminates mold as in like I mean
1:04:08
they just want to sell these freaking devices so they're just playing with all of our emotions here but basically it's like buy this thing it eliminates mold
1:04:14
all you need to do is plug this in you're good to go it's not true and again from a relief perspective you will
1:04:21
definitely get relief potentially depends on how bad your situation is right but I think the dangerous part
1:04:27
about that is first off PCO one of the things that I'd be concerned about is
1:04:33
the conversion to form Malahide right because as we start changing things one of the risk factors we have is actually
1:04:40
faldy production now PCO is one of these things that we start we put out there
1:04:46
we're selling like crazy I see ads all the time for all these different brands pushing PCO technology and to be honest
1:04:55
we don't have enough science around it and some of the potential drawbacks
1:05:00
obviously PCO companies they want to tell you about all the benefits I agree there's some benefits there but I'm also
1:05:08
concerned about the drawbacks and what are we doing longterm that we're not talking about today that is going to be
1:05:15
one of those things like hey let's build a really tight home because it'll it'll be great that 10 years from now we're
1:05:20
like yeah probably shouldn't have sold those PCO machines I mean like history
1:05:25
tends to repeat itself specifically in the United States of America and why is
1:05:31
that because the burden we don't have any burden of proof to create new technology we just say here it is here's
1:05:37
some studies we're coming out there there's no burden there's lit literally no burden of proof right um the approval
1:05:43
process is very very streamlined and limited and that unfortunately has a major drawback with products coming out
1:05:50
there of creating unintended consequences I'm not saying these companies are are trying to harm us but
1:05:57
there's going to be unintended consequences and that's what I'm looking at I mean for me my my probably my
1:06:02
biggest concern would be the formalde production that can that could potentially happen with PCO technology
1:06:08
that I think we need to look at sure um you know still same drawbacks we've got
1:06:15
particles those particles how are we how are those particles changing how are they impacting the human body just same
1:06:22
same just like the ionization how are those particles changing how's that impacting the human body right one
1:06:28
challenge with ionization obviously these particles will reeman right um we
1:06:34
have to remove particles so um you'll always see for me I get behind things
1:06:41
that are built around removal over like trying to destroy obliterate eliminate
1:06:48
neutralize marketing term neutralize like what what does that even mean right it does yeah because the particles
1:06:55
still there I like that you know obviously it's a law of physics but it's like the neutral created never be destroyed yeah what does that mean yeah
1:07:02
if I put if I put one of my most sensitive clients in a in a in a room full of neutralized particles would they
1:07:07
react if you can't answer that question for me I'm not behind it yeah yeah well I agree so I I I like that and it helps
1:07:14
me because I'm open to trying all these things and again I always say Ford says
1:07:19
they're better than Chevy says they're better than Toyota they're all about the same you know you might test drive them
1:07:24
and see which one works for you and I would say the same thing even in the supplement world you know these these reps come in and they pitch me on all
1:07:30
these things they're just regurgitating the sales pitch of what the supplement is good for like well what about all
1:07:36
these other variables that play into human physiology and you you don't always have to know them all but you
1:07:42
have to keep them in mind and not just be over like quickly sold on the benefits of something it's really really
1:07:48
famous obviously is really famous in the supplement world because people come into me with you know 25 different supplements that they read about how
1:07:54
great they were and they still feel like crap so um so I in closing because we'll
1:08:00
let you go here but tell us about you know I I don't say tell us about like home cleanse and tell us about some of
1:08:07
things but I'm going to link some of you know your websites and things but where should people go to find you and what I
1:08:13
mean by that too is because you mentioned this a little bit but I think it might be confusing to people too if they want to do a mold test it's dust
1:08:19
test and that's a a business that you own and have created and is awesome if
1:08:24
they want remed mediation it's uh home cleanse if they
1:08:29
want information it's changed the air but all of those doors lead to more of
1:08:36
your content and more of your info and more of your education so where would you point people you know um for more
1:08:43
information or or things like that Michael yeah no it definitely depends on on what you're looking for right so yeah
1:08:50
if you if you want really good resources uh and and good information or anything
1:08:55
I said to you about the mission of the foundation you should go to change theair foundation.org uh if you want to
1:09:01
connect with me personally you should go to my personal website the Michael Rabino
1:09:18
docomo you want a healthy home you're not really sure what to do and you you're you know you're at the beginning
1:09:23
of the journey a home cleanse is a good place to start because it I could help you a lot easier if you're at the
1:09:29
beginning than if you're in the middle yeah because if you're in the middle you know you might have data that's that's
1:09:35
not valuable we have to go get more data and so you know the it's it's if you're
1:09:41
in the beginning of the process contacting home cleanse to create a healthier home like we can help put you
1:09:46
with the right people get you in touch with everything you need to kind of go through the Journey start to finish as
1:09:52
effort effortlessly as possible there's going to be some effort I don't want to make that make that clear but you're going to give options and say hey this
1:09:58
is yeah yeah based on budget and need and all those you know nuances but
1:10:03
they're going to give options and like you said it's easier to start at the beginning than to come when they're halfway through or they've already done
1:10:09
different you know whatever and honestly like you know the the dust test.com is a great place to go if you are just you
1:10:15
know just curious about checking the the levels of mold in your house it uses PCR technology but honestly you can go to
1:10:21
home cleanse as well and kind of have have a more guided approach um the dust the dust test is offered
1:10:28
through home cleanse as well part of our process so it just depends on what you're looking for you but I would say
1:10:34
too because a lot of people hear this and they think oh dust test.com I'm gonna go get a dust test I'm gonna test my house and even if you're intrigued by
1:10:41
that are going to do that I would still say spend a I don't know two hours clicking around on home cleanse and on
1:10:48
change the air and just learn about this and then still do a dust test but understand it a little bit more but all
1:10:55
those resources are you know readily available depending on what stage of Readiness you're at I would say
1:11:01
absolutely yeah and again just depends on where you're at what you're looking for you know um and but I you I could
1:11:08
assure you that there's definitely a place for you if anything that we talked about was interesting for you at all
1:11:13
today yeah okay well then so just to wrap up you know I think that again for me it it was birthed out of seeing
1:11:21
patients and you know I'm a chiropractor so I started off doing chiropratic I work before I did functional medicine
1:11:26
but you see these people that are on 20 meds and they're just suffering so severely and nobody's really been able
1:11:32
to help them and you just start saying like well why and like well can we clean up your diet can we get you exercising
1:11:38
you know some of those you know I don't want to say Basics but kind of Basics but I think that it most people in the mold world in the air quality world we
1:11:45
just keep asking why why why and it comes back to you got to be breathing clean air and so that encompasses a
1:11:53
little bit of everything that we just talked about it Encompass encompasses your P purpose and mission and vision
1:11:59
with regards to change the air it encompasses some of the things we talked about as far as filtration and MV and
1:12:06
just some of the options testing and it is just uh there's a lot of moving
1:12:12
pieces and it's a really really really tricky thing to scale and make you know bigger in global because there are so
1:12:18
many individual customized pieces so kudos to you and your companies and all those things and Kendra and Brandon too
1:12:24
um great job for you guys but I think it comes back to well if we want healthy bodies we got to be breathing clean air
1:12:31
and there are other variables but it's got to start there you could have the perfect diet perfect exercise routine
1:12:37
all those things if you're breathing dirty air people get sicker faster and we see it all the time so I think that's
1:12:44
kind of the takeaway of today's breathing clean air so anything else you have to add there Michael no you take
1:12:50
20,000 breaths per day you inhale enough air to fill up a normal size swimming pool swimming
1:12:55
it's time that you start thinking about your Air Boom love it awesome all right thank you I appreciate that um and yeah
1:13:03
hopefully we talk soon likewise talk soon